View Full Version : boombox whit amp7 some help needed
I got this project that i am working out. First i try drive this my new boombox whits in cludes this parts
8 ohm 1" PA horn whit 105db/1w
8 ohm 12" PA midle/bass whit 98db/1w
4 ohm 12" subwoofer whit 95db/1w
I connect stereo to mono whit two 5kohm resistors.
Horn and midle i put to othet output and subwoofer other to get poth 4ohm load.
Level controll i do it whit potentiometer 50kohm in poth chanels
Look like that my old amp6 is too small. Firs i think that it will can drive thit speakers because they are good db/1w ratings.
Naw i thin to order amp7 to try out get it work.
Firs i haw of course increase the battery to get minimum 48volt (12vx4batterys)
So if i understand right i will get amp7 work from batterys whit PS2-P+P an i will not need order any other parts to amp?
Other one whit amp6. (needs more power too)
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the big one :)
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Yeah, I think that can work. So you want to take 48V and make 5V and VN10, right? I think the PS2-P+P can do that.
(I'm think that the Amp7 might be overkill for this though ... I'd try the Amp9 at ~24V first ...)
Yeah, I think that can work. So you want to take 48V and make 5V and VN10, right? I think the PS2-P+P can do that.
(I'm think that the Amp7 might be overkill for this though ... I'd try the Amp9 at ~24V first ...)
I look amp7 from shop they says:
"Maximum +/-60V is recommended. You also need two independent housekeeping supplies, one for the onboard 5V, one for the gate drives. For the 5V, there is a 5V regulator on the AMP7 board, that needs to be powered, typically by 8 to 12V 50mA. The gate supply needs around 250mA, 10V, referenced 10V above the negative supply. For these two housekeeping powers, you can use PS2-P+P both set at 10V."
So my english is not so good and if i got it right i think that i can do that whit ps2-p+p and set both at 10V?
Sub can take 1000w peak and midle 400w and supertweatter 300w so it will be fine...
Yeah, then the PS2-P+P looks good. You connect one half of the PS2 to each amplifier rail (the VN10 is tied to the negative rail).
What I mean by overkill is that I don't think you'll need to build something as heavy and expensive as a 48V Amp7 to get good volume ... Also, the Amp7 is a dual-rail amp, so you'd need EIGHT (8) batteries if you want 48V power ... you need + and - rails :/
(I would have a look at either a single-rail amp like the Amp11, or look at using fewer batteries and a power converter to convert 12V to 48V.)
amp9:
4 channel amps for 12V and low impedance loads
Four channels of Tripath sound quality, based on Tripath TAA4100A
Output 4x50W (at 2ohms? so 25w to 4ohm not enougt) at low distortion, 4x100W peak
Suitable for low impedance loads, 4 x 2 ohms 12V typical
Up to 15V supply makes this model suitable for 12V / car use
Outputs can be paralleled for even higher outputs into very low impedance loads
Mostly hole mounted components. Relatively low component count.
There are different versions, like this one that can take up to 28V: http://shop.41hz.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=35&catid= (http://shop.41hz.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=35&catid=)
It puts out 4x100W. If you parallel outputs, you can use 2 Ohm at 200W (and even 1 Ohm at 400W).
Yeah, then the PS2-P+P looks good. You connect one half of the PS2 to each amplifier rail (the VN10 is tied to the negative rail).
What I mean by overkill is that I don't think you'll need to build something as heavy and expensive as a 48V Amp7 to get good volume ... Also, the Amp7 is a dual-rail amp, so you'd need EIGHT (8) batteries if you want 48V power ... you need + and - rails :/
(I would have a look at either a single-rail amp like the Amp11, or look at using fewer batteries and a power converter to convert 12V to 48V.)
So that i didnt know... or undestand... I think to do other portaple battery box whit yuasas 7 or 17 amp/h 12v.
7 amp/h X 8 is 56amp/h and weigt 15-20kg think....
Amp11 is Surface Mounted and i haw only normal solder whits is not good for that. (one amp32 destroyed all ready:)
and "We're sorry, this item is currently out of stock! Please contact us for details."
not on sold any more
Hehe :) The Amp32 is more sensitive than the Amp11, but I can understand that people don't like surface mount.
(I personally think it's much easier to build, but it's different from person to person :))
I think the Amp9 is really a very good amp for a boombox. Rugged, easy to build, powerful. It's recommended in the Boominator: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/104402-boominator-another-stab-ultimate-party-machine.html
So on 4ohm subwoofer whits i haw on that bigger one got 100w rms with amp11 whit 28v (2 times 12 volt battery)
I really afraid that amp9 will not enough to drive this box
Celestion Truvox 1225 12" bas/midi 250 W RMS. 97 dB/w. Imp. 8 Ohm
Selenium ST-200 Super Tweeter 1,75" 105 dB/W. Imp: 8 Ohm
PIONEER TS-W309S4 12" 4ohm 1400w max 400w/rms 94db/w
I think that subwoofer is broplem
The max power is not so important ... The dB/W figure is important, and those you have pretty good dB/W!
With 100W power, you can get 113.5 dB from the subwoofer! Not bad I would say ...
That i was wondering. I calculated that 25w to subwoofer whit amp6 will got 107,5 but it does not sound sou loud when i test it... So i think that i by so ridiculously big amp that it will do it the trick what i was lookin foor :)
realy the amp6 was crapy on that assembly. My old one whit 6x9" spekers sounds good whit amp6...
But the amp7 is impossible to doit whit batterys? The size is not broblem because i have this smaller boombox for that why... This bigger one i transport whit my car to wher i needed.
i think i test my yamaha av wher i can get 75w is that bether that amp6. If that is good i might by amp9
That i was wondering. I calculated that 25w to subwoofer whit amp6 will got 107,5 but it does not sound sou loud when i test it... So i think that i by so ridiculously big amp that it will do it the trick what i was lookin foor :)
realy the amp6 was crapy on that assembly. My old one whit 6x9" spekers sounds good whit amp6...
Hmm ... Strange ... Did you try changing gain resistors in the Amp6, for more amp gain? (Was it always too quiet? Or did it clip and give hard noises? I think if it was just too low volume, then using more gain will work! If it clips and gives noises, then you need a bigger amp ...)
But the amp7 is impossible to doit whit batterys? The size is not broblem because i have this smaller boombox for that why... This bigger one i transport whit my car to wher i needed.
It's maybe not easy. But you can do it! V-Bro put an Amp15 in his car, it is almost the same as Amp7 ... The best way is to use a DC-DC converter. It takes the 12V and makes it into 24V or 36V or 48V ... Then you only need 2 batteries, but still get 48V power.
i think i test my yamaha av wher i can get 75w is that bether that amp6. If that is good i might by amp9
Good idea!
Hmm ... Strange ... Did you try changing gain resistors in the Amp6, for more amp gain? (Was it always too quiet? Or did it clip and give hard noises? I think if it was just too low volume, then using more gain will work! If it clips and gives noises, then you need a bigger amp ...)
It's maybe not easy. But you can do it! V-Bro put an Amp15 in his car, it is almost the same as Amp7 ... The best way is to use a DC-DC converter. It takes the 12V and makes it into 24V or 36V or 48V ... Then you only need 2 batteries, but still get 48V power.
Good idea!
It defennetly clips. Amp6 gave 9,6v from both chanels and after that it clips and went bad!
DC-DC converter. Hmm realy good idea. I need tested first whit that yamaha and after that do something....
Firs i haw of course increase the battery to get minimum 48volt (12vx4batterys)
Note that the amp7 requires dual rail supply, so that's both +48V and -48V. It will require minimum 8 batteries to get +-48V.
Note that the amp7 requires dual rail supply, so that's both +48V and -48V. It will require minimum 8 batteries to get +-48V.
Yes that i wasnt noticed. Good thing is that i can got free yuasas batterys from work(3years oulds but working well)
dc-dc converter will doit too but batterys is cheaper to me.
Also I'm not surprised that the output of your PIONEER TS-W309S4 seems very low. The sensitivity isn't 94dB/w/m. That's peak at 1KHz and at 2W. Average sensitivity is actually 86dB/w/m for that particular driver.
Also I'm not surprised that the output of your PIONEER TS-W309S4 seems very low. The sensitivity isn't 94dB/w/m. That's peak at 1KHz and at 2W. Average sensitivity is actually 86dB/w/m for that particular driver.
What? Realy
This finish sites says other
http://www.pioneer.eu/fi/products/25/131/201/TS-W309S4/specs.html
says "(1W/1m) 94 dB"
english
http://www.pioneer.eu/uk/products/25/131/201/TS-W309S4/specs.html
says "Sensitivity 94 dB"
What? Realy
This finish sites says other
http://www.pioneer.eu/fi/products/25/131/201/TS-W309S4/specs.html
says 94db/w
No, the deliberately left out the "w" which would mean 1W.
And they don't specify anywhere the measuring method.
What I did was find the manual online and plot in the T/S specs into WinISD. That will calculate the precise output to a fraction of a dB. So it is in fact 86.1278dB with 1 watt at 1 meter in the intended working area.
That's car audio specs for you. Never ever trust any car audio specs.
EDIT: Maybe I should clarify. The way car audio specs is usually measured and listed in manufacturer data is always best case scenario. That mean when they measure sensitivity the don't list the average sensitivity as you would with normal driver, you find the point with the highest peak, and list that. And you don't meaure at 1W, you measure at 2.82V, which into 8 ohms is 1W but into 4 ohms is 2W. To confound matters even more, many car audio manufacturers measure output at 50cm instead of 1m distance which would appear to be 6dB more than at 1m.
This is standard practise for car audio specifactions. Almost all manufacturers measure their data like that. They just don't tell you, the costumer.
No, the deliberately left out the "w" which would mean 1W.
And they don't specify anywhere the measuring method.
What I did was find the manual online and plot in the T/S specs into WinISD. That will calculate the precise output to a fraction of a dB. So it is in fact 86.1278dB with 1 watt at meter in the intended working area.
That's car audio specs for you. Never ever trust any car audio specs.
They realy claims in finish site that 94db/w.... they use That watt in that site but not in english site! Strange???
Btw that explain lots if that 86db is truth!
Hey Saturnus, I hope it's not off-topic, but do you happen to keep any kind of online log of interesting high-sensitivity drivers you find?
so i need new subwoofer too. Damm this comes expensive!
Hehe ... but maybe you don't need a new amp :)
Hey Saturnus, I hope it's not off-topic, but do you happen to keep any kind of online log of interesting high-sensitivity drivers you find?
Only if they're interesting. This 12" driver would make a very good high output sub for a boombox or a car sub which wouldn't need 4000W to give out burbs.
http://eminence.com/pdf/delta-12lfa.pdf
Pretty cheap too. Standard world market price is around $100, so it should cost around €65 in Europe.
Hehe ... but maybe you don't need a new amp :)
Maybe or maybe i need. Amp6 is still small for this boombox.... But so i need find high sensitivity subwoofer! Any ideas?
Box is 80liter and tuned on 35hz
Box is 80liter and tuned on 35hz
Tuning would depend on driver but 80L would be perfect for the above driver. Maybe even slightly on the large size. And you should not tune it that low for boombox use or you'll loose a lot of bass response. Aim for a tuning Qtc of between 1 and 1.2. It must be minimum Qtc=1 or it doesn't work very well outside where Q=1.2 would be perfect but too much for indoors use.
EDIT: Btw, the eminence driver is a perfect example. Look at the spec sheet for it. Because this is a professional driver made by an honest manufacturer, average sensitivity is listed as 94.6dB/w/m (note: that it also says sensitivity is measured at 1w for the correct impedance, ie 1.41V for 4 ohm, 2.82V for 8 ohm, and 4V for 16 ohm) even though it peaks at 100dB at 2KHz. Had this been a car audio driver it would have been the 100dB that would have been listed.
Please note the Eminence Delta12LF comes in a 4 ohms version too. It's called Delta12LFC (instead of LFA).
Only if they're interesting. This 12" driver would make a very good high output sub for a boombox or a car sub which wouldn't need 4000W to give out burbs.
http://eminence.com/pdf/delta-12lfa.pdf
Pretty cheap too. Standard world market price is around $100, so it should cost around €65 in Europe.
84db on 50hz ? Not so good! after 100hz sensitivity is ok but not on anymore before that
Only if they're interesting. This 12" driver would make a very good high output sub for a boombox or a car sub which wouldn't need 4000W to give out burbs.
http://eminence.com/pdf/delta-12lfa.pdf
Pretty cheap too. Standard world market price is around $100, so it should cost around €65 in Europe.
See:
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84db on 50hz ? Not so good! after 100hz sensitivity is ok but not on anymore before that
It's free air measurement!!! It takes a lot of experience to read these graphs correctly ;)
Just plot into WinISD and see what it says. For the price it's pretty good and several classes better than almost any car audio sub.
Your current sub would measure around 72-74dB at 50Hz under the same conditions, btw.
Tuning would depend on driver but 80L would be perfect for the above driver. Maybe even slightly on the large size. And you should not tune it that low for boombox use or you'll loose a lot of bass response. Aim for a tuning Qtc of between 1 and 1.2. It must be minimum Qtc=1 or it doesn't work very well outside where Q=1.2 would be perfect but too much for indoors use.
EDIT: Btw, the eminence driver is a perfect example. Look at the spec sheet for it. Because this is a professional driver made by an honest manufacturer, average sensitivity is listed as 94.6dB/w/m (note: that it also says sensitivity is measured at 1w for the correct impedance, ie 1.41V for 4 ohm, 2.82V for 8 ohm, and 4V for 16 ohm) even though it peaks at 100dB at 2KHz. Had this been a car audio driver it would have been the 100dB that would have been listed.
Please note the Eminence Delta12LF comes in a 4 ohms version too. It's called Delta12LFC (instead of LFA).
http://www.ljudia.fi/Archive/ProductFiles/932037/Truvox%201225.pdf
That one is mid/bass on my boombox an i was tuned first on 70hz whit out subwoofer but it do not sound good... bass was not deep inought!
That's hardly surprising. The Truvox is not meant for sub bass only midbass. The Delta 12LFC is designed for sub bass (LF=Low Frequency, C=4 ohms).
So if i tuned my box beter i will bropably get it work whit this
http://www.ljudia.fi/Archive/ProductFiles/932037/Truvox%201225.pdf
Whit out subwoofer???
Or change the subwoofer beter...
So if i tuned my box beter i will bropably get it work whit this
http://www.ljudia.fi/Archive/ProductFiles/932037/Truvox%201225.pdf
Whit out subwoofer???
I would imagine so but it depend on how low bass you want because outdoors the response on the spec sheet is actually quite accurate. You see outside bass loss is about equal to a 6dB filter at 200Hz. So if you want it to play 100Hz correctly you must have about 6dB more output (4 times the power) and at 50Hz it would require 12dB more (16 times the power).
I would imagine so but it depend on how low bass you want because outdoors the response on the spec sheet is actually quite accurate. You see outside bass loss is about equal to a 6dB filter at 200Hz. So if you want it to play 100Hz correctly you must have about 6dB more output (4 times the power) and at 50Hz it would require 12dB more (16 times the power).
bass not need to be SOO much. I try get it sound good. Just inought!
dc-dc converter will doit too but batterys is cheaper to me.
No way, get a second hand crappy car booster with class AB amp, cut the board in two to separate the DC-DC converter and you're in business....
http://www.41hz.com/forums/showthread.php?2528-Car-AMP7-AMP15-and-Truepath
Only do keep in mind that it will draw quite a bit of current at the 12V side....
So if i chance that sub to this
http://www.ljudia.fi/Archive/ProductFiles/211065_FI/
HP-12W%20-%20Tiedot.pdf
Speks ok? Cost only 55 euros here.
When i got home i install winisd an try it.
Amp9 shut then enough?
So if i chance that sub to this
http://www.ljudia.fi/Archive/ProductFiles/211065_FI/
HP-12W%20-%20Tiedot.pdf
Speks ok? Cost only 55 euros here.
When i got home i install winisd an try it.
Amp9 shut then enough?
No need. The HP12W is not suited for compact enclosures. The Eminence Delta 12LFC is only €10 more and far better suited for the use.
No need. The HP12W is not suited for compact enclosures. The Eminence Delta 12LFC is only €10 more and far better suited for the use.
http://www.amazon.com/Eminence-Delta-12-LFC-Speaker/dp/B0037P3VLA
I am making order now then!
I dont know is this good brogram to use but this i been used...
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http://www.autosound.fi/ohjelmat/bbd/index.htm
EDIT: winisd downloaded now
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Damn!!!
is this same
http://www.thomann.de/fi/eminence_delta_12.htm (edit no its not)
http://www.finnaudio.fi/v3/cat/product_details.php?p=1042 109€ (Edit2 138,50€ whit deliveryd)
Cant find cheaper!!! Shame must odrer from there
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80l and tuned 45hz
3db gain at 70hz Good???
Now got to go work... se u later.
PTW thanks to help me out :)
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80l and tuned 45hz
3db gain at 70hz Good???
Smack daddy perfect. +2.82dB (2*2^0.5) peak means the optimal Qtc of 1.21 (2^0.5/2) is achieved.
From the graph you can also see the lowest frequency you can expect to be played without significant loss outdoors is 50Hz (lower 0dB point). That's very good for a single 12" sub and in this compact an enclosure.
However, I already knew this because I've designed the new Coffin Blaster with that driver (was HP12Ws before) and that internal cabinet size.
Try to e-mail Thomann. They might get it for you or they might have it in stock even if the site says they don't. But even at €109 it is still a better price/performance than the €55 HP12Ws. That's right, I truly think the Delta's are worth at least twice as much.
Delta's is orderd now. !
Got it 100e.
Ok i haw some guestions. Please look picture
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And there is crossovers.
OK? Needed to cut bass??? Look picture
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edit 4 ohm subwoofer
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